Retiring In The Philippines Knowledge Base
what are the requirements of a US citizen retiring to the Philippines? which govt agencies do you notify? i want to know if someone wants to to the Philippines - need to find out what we need to do both here in the US and in the Philippines. need to know if there are any fees, application, any govt agencies we need to notify, etc.
We are planning of retiring in the Philippines twelve years from now.Is it a good a idea to purchase a proper? ty now? What do you think about the political situation?I just want to read a few opinions I am open minded.
Will you be retiring in the Philippines? Will you choose to live in the City or in the province? What will be your activities?
Wishing to find sites that have the real facts about cost of Living and the going-ons in the Philippines? I looked at the sites of Philippine Living Island Paradise, Living in the Philippines3, #1, #2, Retire in Philippines, Philippine dream & #1, cebuxxx.. and Street wise xxx.. and found by reading the postings that listed owners and/or mediators and/or including members are the same in these sites that talk like the Philippines is the next best thing to come a long in the last 300 years since the discovery of the Americas. I am wishing to find the real facts about today's cost to live and the going on's-in-the-Philippines. Not just Marketing people trying to lure people in and who maybe paid for. Please help if you can.
Philippines? Thinking about retiring in the Philippines. What can you tell me about the Philippines
I have considered on retiring in the Philippines and need some advise.? I would like to retire in the Philippines with in the next five years; however what is a good Business to start there to compliment my retirement pension? This question gos out for anyone that lives in the PI, has lived there before or knows about the PI; if you could give me your advise on this issule i would greatly appreciate it very much. Joe
Americans living in the Philippines? Not retiring but move there? Let me know your experience. My wife was born there and we thought about living there (more me than her).. We're married so I know I can work or own a business but how difficult would it be? Any of you do it? Give me your experiences. Thanks
A question for Filipino americans who plan on or have retired in the Philippines? When you retire in the Philippines as a FIL-am, are considered as the "cash cow"? Do your relatives ask you for money? Even though I have been living in the US for the last 20 of 23 years of my life, I do plan on retiring back in the Philippines, and wonder if all the stories Ive heard about Fil-Ams who return to the Philippines are "used" by relatives.
How much capital do I need to for a decent internet cafe(with food) or a cellphone business in the Philippines Me and my wife are Filipinos. I just acquired my US citizenship about 4 years ago but am planning to get a dual citizenship. Semi-retiring in the Philippines but with a comfortable life is our goal. We've already missed a lot of relatives' and friends' weddings, baptisms, birthdays, and fiestas not to mention all the occasions. Don't want to do it when we get older because all we know would be old or dead.(hope not) But any hel would be great especially if you could add the living expenses today. So, would that 1 million bucks just the initial investment or would that be a sustainable amount for at least a year. I know that it might have been just thrown out there as pertaining to "big bucks" but it might be valid.
What are the best investments in the Philippines? As a FIL-am, I plan on retiring in the Philippines, and want to know what are some good businesses to start. I know that a internet cafe, jeepneys, restaurants, and sari-saris are the most popular ones. What are the other options? thanks
Living and retiring in the Philippines!? Recently I asked the same question, but with the wrong amount, in which I forgot to add what I make in a month. I'm 12 years old and my father is 73, and we are thinking about moving to the Philippines this Summer, and together we make about $4600 a month on social security, insurance fees, etc. maybe a little more. Anyway, would it be possible to live like a king in the Philippines. For example, a five bedroom apartment with 3 bathrooms, and such. And where could we live the best with that money. Not to much in the rural areas, but not in the heart of the city either. I've been reading up on the Philippines, and I've heard that you can get a cook or maid for about $30 a month, plus the cost of food, and a room. Thanks, David PS: Where can I live, and how well, some details would be helpful.
I am over 65 and retiring to the philippines. can i still get my free medication and have it shipped to the ph? I believe that there is a special arrangements between the UK government and the philippines. Is this included?
I am retiring to Philippines Where is good place live & rent napa house and have animals,will open net cafe? I am retired then It is my dream to find Filipino wife.
Does anyone have info on retiring to The Philippines and the "Resident Retirment Visa" program? I am a white american and I want to retire to the Bataan area.
I will retire to Philippines with my asiangf filipina wife, is Ph a safe and cheap place to live ? I’m going to retire my job soon and I want to move in asia because I met my sweet asian wife in asiangf. Is Philippines a cheap and safe place to live ?
How can I get a quota visa for the philippines? I would like to retire to the Philippines and do not wish to renew a tourist visa every two months.
How can I get a FPO box in the Philippines? I'm a 100% disabled US veteran, planning to retire in the philippines how can I can get a fpo box in manila, philippines?
I am retiring and moving to the philippines , how much tax or stoppages will i have to pay from my company pen my company pension from royal mail will be 11000 per yr is it best to pay nat ins at basic rate to keep my stamp being paid also i will be returning once a year for a month each time approx
Why do so many ex-US military men retire to the Philippines or Guam? For instance, my own stepdad, who put in 30 years with the Navy, lives in a really nice villa north of Manila. I visit him sometimes, and there are a lot of retired military guys in the area. A handful of British and Germans, but mostly US. Is it just the continued legacy of the Subic Bay base, or what?
Where can I order persimmon seeds to be delivered to the Philippines? My dad wants to retire in the philippines and he wants to grow persimmon trees there
What must I do to retire to the Philippines as a permanent resident????? I plan on joining my Fiancee & her 2 children in Laoag where she owns a home. Currently she is a contract worker in Hong Kong where I will join her prior to relocating to the Philippines upon expiration of her contract. I SIMPLY WANT TO KNOW WHAT DOCUMENTATION, ETC. I WILL NEED TO RESIDE IN THE PHILIPPINES PERMANENTLY WITH MY NEW FAMILY.
Is the Philippines, a good place to retire for a westerner? I'm looking to reitre in the Philippines because I met a lady friend. I was told the country was the best to retire to because it is clean and cheap to live their and safe and supposidly it's the friendliest nation in Asian...what do you think?
us citizen wants to move to the philippines and become a citizen? I am a natural born us citizen and I want to retire in the philippines in 10 years and I want to become a philippine citizen what do I have to do to become one. I do not want to have to get a visa and then have to leave once a year for 2 to 3 weeks. I want to live there permantly.
Where would be the best place to retire -- Mexico or Philippines? The best place to retire for the money.
How hard is it to retire and live in the Philippines if you are not from there. How much money would it take? I am married to a Filipina, and she would like to move back in a few years. I am just starting to research this, and thought I would ask here to see if anyone has any insight? Is this something you would suggest. Oviously I have travelled there several times, and I know what life is like there. How will things be there in 20 Years? Would you consider living there?
My question is directed 2 military in the Philippines? I know that there r a lot of military retires in the Philippines, so my question is directed 2 them. What if any taxes r u required to pay to the Philippine govt. I know that ur already paying taxes to IRS & to ur home state.
Why is it when a foreigner decided to retire or reside in the Philippines? there is always a suggestion of"marrying a Filipina/better marry a filipina to make it easier for you". Don't you think that's giving a bad idea especially for kapwa kababayan?
Does anyone know a retired navy officer in the Philippines? His name is Benjamin Trinidad Roxas? He adopted my husband and left his family because he had a huge fight with his wife. We wanted to know where he is now because his wife passed away last year. He needs to know what happened. Is there anyway to locate him? What should we do?
What is the process to retire in the Philippines if married for 18yrs to Philippine citizen? I am a U.S. citizen My wife and I married here in the U.S. (legally of course), been married for 18yrs, she never gave up citizenship (Thank GOD!!). Was wondering what rules apply to me moving with her back to the Philippines permanently and retiring there. Thanks in advance for those who help.
Philippines retirement question? How much money should one have if they were to retire in the Philippines?
What is the best place in the Philippines for a foreigner to retire? Want some good suggestions with some reasoning. Thanks.
Anyone planning to retire early in the Philippines? I plan in moving at around 54 or 55 then live off savings till my 401K at 59.5 then SS at 62 . I am going to a province outside Cebu where my house will be built in a few months .
i want to retire and live in philippines with my filipina wife? what is the best way of having my works pension paid to me if i live in philippines my bank or pay it into a philippine bank from uk
how can I deposit my sss pension to the philippines branch? im planing to retire in the philippines for good, so how can i direct deposit from sss (usa) to philippines bank?
I want to retire to the Philippines. Does anyone know who can give a loan so I can retire there for marriage p have you ever been content for the first time in your life?
Whats the best place to retire in the Philippines for a Fil-am? Anywhere would be good except Mindanao I actually wanna live near other Filipinos and not foreigners. Even though I am a FIL-am, I still speak tagalog fluently(as well as english and some spanish).
How can I retire in the Philippines? I am 56 years old. I can leave my job with early retirement benefits. I like Cagayan de Oro City, was there about 2 years ago. Can an American buy land?
how to move to the philippines i am married to a philippino lady with two children? i would like to retire in the philippines cebu i spent twenty days there it was great the people were vary polite i got back here and i missed cebu and my wife and the whole family
Where can I find the best site for info from people who live & have retired in the Philippines? What about visas, costs, places to live etc.
is there anything like medicare and drug perscription in the philippines? is there anything like a drug perscription plans and medicare for seniors in the philippines for someone from the united states that plans to retire in the philippines
Should I retire in the Philippines? I know my dollar will go father. Can I own land as a forgiener, health car My wife is from the Philippines, but no longer a citizen. I wonder about owning land or a house.
I need information on applying for scholarships and/or grants. US citizen living in the Philippines w/parents? I am a US citizen living in the Philippines, my father is a retired Electrical Engineer. I went to school up to the tenth grade in Carroll county Maryland.
what is it like for an american to retire in the Philippines? Information about cost of living,housing,food,and transportation
Where is a good place to retire in the Philippines rent a napa house with electricity,hot water & buy a horse? I want to buy animals like big dog,horse,cow,pig,goat I also want to start a bussiness like ebay or internet cafe.
6 years ago i was convicted of a CIMT, can i get an SRRV for the Philippines? I would love to retire to the Philippines however, i was convicted of a CIMT, crime. I received no custodial sentence, just a community order and fine. Can i apply for a Special Residential Retirement Visa (SRRV) in the Philippines, or should i go and retire under a rock - or live in France ? I fulfil all the SRRV criteria...just not the crime bit !! Crimes Involving Moral Turpitude
How can an American become a Philippine citizen? I plan on retiring in the Philippines, and will soon marry a woman there. We already have built our home there. Can I become a citizen of that country? I want to be able to travel to and from there, and stay for long periods, without having to pay excessive Visa Extension fees. I also want to build a business there, and start an orphanage school. Is becoming a citizen expensive? Does it take long? How is the process begun?
What is the best way to ship household goods to the Philippines? I will retire next August and want to move to Cebu City , Philippines. I want to know what is the best and least expensive way to do this. My wife and Daughter are Philippine Citizens, I am looking to ship tools, some houshold items and maybe a car.
How does a US citizen move to the Philippines appropriately>? I am a 23 year old retired US veteran. I am retired due to a health problem caused while serving in the military. I have some family in the Philippines and would do much better financially if I moved there. How can I obtain permanent residency or gain acceptence to stay in The Philippines. I am going to start the process tomorrow to get my passport. Can anyone enlighten me with the steps I need to take to move to the Philippines. I want to move by february at the latest.
What is the Best Forum Site in the Philippines? i was browsing a forum site name http://www.tubagbohol.com and i like it so much since the site contains really useful topics and the discussion is very intellectual. is there any other nice forum site in the Philippines? i wish to interact more with the filipino community as i am interested to retire in the Philippines.
Do yo want to live well/retire to the Philippines? 4 a £1,000/month u live like a king/queen? The quality of life achieved for this amount in a provincial city is great. Maids are £15/ month house boys are free if you feed them well. food is cheap. (big prawns(8 to the kilo) are £2.50 a kilo) Sprats 20p/ kilo.beef 1.50 /kilo . drawbacks-- do not get sick and do not go intobusiness if you are not prepared to write off your investment. Do not go to court..it will take you 4 ever. Otherwise plenty of good charming company ..great to write and read books and paint and more.......
The Philippines? Where would be the best place to retire in the Philippines? I am American and my wife if Filipino.
buying land in the philippines? i am planning to retire in the philippines as my wife is filopino what right have i being foreign about owning land in the philippines.would everythink have to be in my wife name or can it be put in joint names? i have already brought 3 lots of land and which was done vie her parents, and we are awiting for her to post us the documents, she has told me that my name will also be on them along with my wife. this is what we have ask for
Do I have to pay customs for my household goods if I retire in the Philippines if so how much? I am a retired US Navy, but I was recruited in Subic when there was still an agreement between the US and Philippine government. Is it true that we are allowed to bring back our household goods tax free?
staying in the philippines after marriage? i pan on marring a philippines girl and i want to stay in the philippines with her i am retired and i live on my social sercurity what do i need to do to stay in the philippines with her and keep my social security check
Im a pharmacist in the Philippines and plans to work in Hongkong,how do I do this? And I want to be a Hongkong citizen & plan to retire there.
Which place is cheaper for a person to retire: Thailand or the Philipinnes? I am thinking about retiring in about 10 years and I want to start planning. If I stay at my current job, I can retire with about $2950 per month (a little under 100 per day). I would like to retire overseas. I am concidering Thailand and the Philippines. Which one would be cheaper? Which one has the better quality of life for retirees? I have concidered other countries, but the cost of living was too high. I will need to stay within my budget.
CALPERS my dad died and he lives in the philippines as a retired CO, he was also in the navy? I need to know how do I go about seeing if I was his beneficiary. I am his only child. He was never in my life so I deserve everything as that is what I am entitled to. He was the type of man that retired from being a CO after 30 yrs. and moved to the philippines in 1997. He died and his wife from the philipinnes who is 32 yrs old and he was 70 called me to inform me of his passing. she is now asking me for money as she is saying he left her nothing. I think she deserves nothing, hell I havent even filed anything yet. So what I am asking is if I have more say than her as I am his daughter , a us citizen or her who is a philippine citizen. It looks as if she may be a gold digger. Please help lead me in the rightdirection as to where do I go first. Also if he left her as benficiary and he adopted her daughter are they entitled to everything or is it nulled since they are not us citizens amd I am next of kin.
Where is the best place to retire in Asia or South America? I am looking to retire within the next 5 years and have looked in to Thailand and Philippines (Cebu, Bohol, Davao (Concern though)
can I stay in the Philippines for more than a year? my Father is a US Citizen. he is retired now and bought a house in the Philippines. What are the consequences if he decides to stay in the Phlippines for more than a year?
Are there really online jobs for someone based in the Philippines? I am a retired person but I would still want to earn. I understand it is possible to do this from home via an online job. There are so many offers of quick, easy money but some look like scams. Can you please assist to determine the real, reliable ones? Thanks a lot.
Can I own property in the Philippines as an American citizen? My mother, who is a Phillippine citizen wants to give me her piece of land because she knows I want to retire there. I know I can go there as "balik bayan" because my mother is Filipino and stay for a year versus 21 days, but owning property, I'm not sure.
Where is the best place to advertise selling our small biz (internet cafe, philippines) online for free? Where is the best place to advertise selling our small biz (internet cafe, philippines) online for free or? minimum rate? We would prefer attracting buyer from outside the country (usually married to a filipina) who may like to retire or semi-retire and have an enjoyable small businesss going in a pleasant environment.
what are the ten good reasons why we should decide to move to the Philippines? Can anybody convince us to decide for the Phil. rather than to stay here in TX. Give us please 10 good reasons to convince us to move to the Phil. I'm retired navy and my future wife is a nurse.
do we need a military junta in the philippines? woulld it be better for the philippines to be ruled by a military junta than a elected corrupt government officials.probably they will be better to rule the country and the corruption will be lessen.we had a widow,a b grade movie actor,a retired general,a senator,a congressman,an economist presidents but still we are all slaves to the system.unless we tried a military junta then we will never be free of this stinking system.a different justices for the upper class and a harsh justices for those unfortunate.
When does the politcal crisis in the Philippines end? Im looking forward to see new faces and new system in the this government.When shall they leave their positions?People are tired of their faces from retired generals became secretaries to the all-talk president.This fake administration is doing everything.People lost their freedom.Filipino are looking for a change in the rank and file and the system.
What would be the best business to put up in Dagupan City, Philippines? My boyfriend is set to retire sometime next year. He wants to go home to his hometown where he grew up. Aside from his retirement income from the US he would like to have some additional source of income (he has been a nurse here in the US) and something to also keep him busy. Any suggestions?
What do Koreans love in the Philippines? There have been sightings of Koreans almost anywhere in the Philippines. They are not just mere tourists, they live, study and retire. They already have a Korean community in some parts of the country.
Im a U.S Citizen, would it be difficult for me to move to the Philippines and Retire, how can I do this ?? Need Paridise ! James, where is your info from ? I can Retire with 250,000 $
Philippines Retirement question? How much do you think one needs to save to retire comfortably in the Philippines? If you could give me a break down of the costs that would be appericated. Thank you.
Looking for Ernesto Rosales, Radio/TV Producer, Philippines? Hi, am doing research for my mother-in-law. She is looking for an old friend who used to own a radio network in the Philippines. She has since retired and lives in the east coast. She was in the then Ministry of Information. Any info on Ernesto Rosales of DYRP, DYRM etc... will be appreciated. Thanks! Email only
Jr, my name is Buddy Rutledge. Im a retired U S Navy Lt living in the Philippines originally from Florida.? I spend about 1.5 million pesos a year to race. Thats about $30,000.00 U S dollars. Do you know any sponsors that may be interested in breaking into racing here? They televise our races on sundays here on the Philippine tv stations. Thank you. Buddy Rutledge #84
Investing in Real Estate in the Philippines? How is the real estate market in the Philippines? I know that a lot of Balikbayans are Baby Boomers now and are looking to retire. They can't afford to retire in the US, Canada, Australia, ect, because its too expensive. However, the Philippines is a lot cheaper for them to buy a place and retire. So I am wondering if it is worth it to invest in the Philippines real estate. Also, I want to know if a lot of new condos in Global City, Makati, Ayala, Alabang are selling? Are people buying all these properties or are they just empty homes?
My wife wants to live in Philippines I have 2 children here in Australia who are 8yrs with ex wife? My wife wants to live in the Philippines as she misses her family and friends. I have twin children here who I share with my ex wife. They are 8yrs old I would move to Phil with my wife but for my children , can I go there to live and leave my children here to my ex wife or do I need to stay here in Australia. My wife an I love each other very much ,but life here is a little lonely without her freinds and family as life style is very open there. I feel it would be hard for us if she where to live there and me here. What would be good for me to do? Life has advantages here but the life style is different here. She prefers to live in Philippines she wants me to go with her I could really retire there as its so cheap to live there but only for my children?
I want to marry a woman from the Philippines and bring her to the US on a fiancee visa for marriage. Advice? I have met a woman from the Philippines on the internet. We've video chatted daily for quite a while now, exchanged email, photos and talked on the phone, -- we know a lot about each other. I am 66, retired, divorced with grown children. She is 53, also divorced with grown children. She holds a Masters in Public Administration and worked for 33 years as a government social worker. She will soon graduate with an RN degree -- her lifelong dream. Quite an intelligent woman. We want to marry, so I plan to travel to the Philippines for her Commencement, meet her family and friends, and give her a ring. After returning to the US, I'll file the necessary paperwork to bring her here on a fiancee visa for our wedding. She wants to work here in the medical field. We realize that love may be a gift, but marriage requires work and we are both up to the task. We would like any and all advice, pitfalls that we may encounter in the immigration process, or just comments or encouragement. Thank you.
Mainland portion of El nido, Palawan, Philippines for sale! anyone interested? This is my second time posting this because i had it wrong the first time bcoz i didn't consult my parents first. The land area is: 92,231 Sq.m Total sales value: $368,924 the mainland portion is located at El nido, Palawan, Philippines. It has a long stretch of powdery white sand beach(300 meters) ideal for a resort. Since it's in El nido "Palawan" you can rest assure that the place is gorgeous. My dad wants to sell it so that he and my mom can now retire. so im just helping them out. If you're interested just send me an email.
I just came back form the philippines because of a recent death. And i want to go back so bad.? I just came back form the philippines because of a recent death. And i want to go back so bad. I mean I YM my cousin in the Philippines. He has a webcam and a microphone and so do I, and we talk for a long time. But its not the same. My mom said we can moved down there soon so i can be close to all my titos titas my lola and my cousins. My Family made a plan that we all move into the same village and so we can be really closer to each other.. I really want to move down there. I am so unhappy in the USA. I live in California. In the Philippines I am really happy. I want to study down there. My mom said she wants to retire down there. We have a long way to go before we move down there though. We have to sell and condo then we have to save our house here with the money form the condo thats in the Philippines. And then come up with 15 Million pesos to but the house in the Philippines. My mom and Dad are Divorced and My Dad has to approve before I go and I really want to go. Any Advice?
leaving america and retiriing in the philippines? im going to be 55 and i can live like a king in the philippines or stay working in america and just barly get by. So should i just sell everything and retire and if i need to come back make extra money and go back. What would you do if you had the chance
I would like to have a list of American veterans of World War II who started a business in the Philippines.? There must be many American servicemen who saw opportuinities in the Philippines after the war. One is William Bird who put up Philippine Rock but I cannot find data on this guy on the internet.. One example: Harry Stonehill, a retired United States Army Lieutenant, brought in tobacco seeds from America. He printed manuals on how to flue-cure tobacco leaves, and, together with the seeds, distributed them free to the farmers of Ilocos Sur, Abra and Ilocos Norte. He built flue-curing barns in Agoo and San Juan, La Union and in Sta. Barbara, and Jan Jacinto, Pangasinan. He established the Philippine Tobacco Flue-Curing and Redrying Corporation (PTFCRC). Together with John Witney, a tobacco expert, and Peter Lim, a businessman, Stonehill pioneered in the Virginia tobacco industry unfortunately, he got into trouble with President Diosdado Macapagal.
Can we penalized loan sharks in the Philippines? i have debts in a certain lending company in the Philippines, this debt give me so much headache because even if i give a little amount every month. the amount i paid cant even minus the capital amount instead my debts become bigger and bigger the biggest amount i got from this lending was 30 thousand pesos. then some advances. but take not they are the owner of my monthly paycheck. In 2005 , the owner told me that my debt is already 176 000 pesos. i was crying because how can i pay that amount as a school teacher only receiving 3000 pesos monthly. she told me even if i retire i cant even pay it with my retirement pay. and still now i have to pay my debts, i dont know how much anymore but i think after more than 2 years i will pay maybe 300 thousand pesos. Please help me to solve my problem because i really thought that this is not just anymore. thank you so much for any answer
I am a British Expat Retired can any one advise me on the best way to bring money over to the Philippines .? I hope to stay for a long period of time maybe 5years
can we penalized loan sharks in the Philippines? i have debts in a certain lending company in the Philippines, this debt give me so much headache because even if i give a little amount every month. the amount i paid cant even minus the capital amount instead my debts become bigger and bigger the biggest amount i got from this lending was 30 thousand pesos. then some advances. but take not they are the owner of my monthly paycheck. In 2005 , the owner told me that my debt is already 176 000 pesos. i was crying because how can i pay that amount as a school teacher only receiving 3000 pesos monthly. she told me even if i retire i cant even pay it with my retirement pay. and still now i have to pay my debts, i dont know how much anymore but i think after more than 2 years i will pay maybe 300 thousand pesos. Please help me to solve my problem because i really thought that this is not just anymore. thank you so much for any answer
Best ways to travel to Australia from the Philippines?? I was wondering if there is any other way of going to Australia from the Philippines.. I'm Half filipino and Half American, raised in California, I'm really interested in going to Australia(maybe sometime this summer (next)) but i'm going to school right now and have no means of making money.. My dad is a retired Air force... U.S...is there any possible way I could make this happen without spending the thousands of dollars to get there<<Pls. help thanks
Moving to Philippines , I need suggestions.....? We are soon retiring. I have seen some houses. Some can be bought furnished. I prefer this. I would also like to sell my house the same way. Are there any other places as cool as Baguio? Is it better for me to stay in a hotel and choose after I'm there? I would like a gated subdivision. What do you think? Where should I go. What is Important to me is , Cable, Air conditioning, servant quarters, maybe a pool. all for $350,000 US Dollars or less.
My lost love thats somewhere in Hong Kong or the Philippines? I wish it was as easy as waiting for her to call me or write. Or me calling her. But its not I had a triple bypass in feb 06 at 36 lost my cellphone watch went dead that had her number and address and most of my personal belongings that had her letters and not at the same address and the letters were returned that she wrote. I've placed ads on Craigs list in Hong Kong and the Philippines hoping to here something but nothing as of yet. Any Suggestions? She was working in Hong Kong as a midwife/nanny the last I was able to speak to her. And I would really like to get back in touch with her. She does mean alot to me. The only phone she had was a cellphone. Address? she may have gotten a new employer or retired. Help!!!!?????????!!!!!!!!!????????!!!!!!!!
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